Comment: Actually I don't think you

Submitted by banderson on January 6, 2008 - 1:51am.

Actually I don't think you understand the repulsive filth and vile material that is published in that book you call the Bible.

Read on:

The vast majority of Americans believe that God exists, that Jesus is his son, and that God himself gave us the Bible and the Ten Commandments. In fact, Supreme court Justice Antonin Scalia has said that "Ninety-nine percent of Americans believe in the ten commandments." He has also said, "What the commandments stand for is the direction of human affairs by God."

If 99% of Americans believe in the ten commandments, how can the Bible be repulsive? Let's take the fourth commandment as an example. It says:

Remember the sabbath day, and keep it holy. For six days you shall labour and do all your work. But the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns. [Exodus 20: 8-9]

This, supposedly, is the word of God, the almighty ruler of the universe.

Now think about this. Wal-mart is open on the Sabbath. And so is Target. Best buy is open on the Sabbath. And so is Circuit City. Home Depot is open on the Sabbath. And so is Lowes. In fact, millions of businesses in America have employees working on the Sabbath. Even Christian Family Bookstores has employees working on the Sabbath.

What should we do with all of these people who are breaking the fourth commandment?

In the Bible's book of exodus - the same book that contains the ten commandments – the Bible tells us what to do with everyone who breaks the fourth commandment. Exodus 31 verse 15 tells us exactly what to do:

For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.

That's right. The Bible commands the death penalty for anyone who works on the Sabbath, and we should obey. Right? This means we have to kill tens of millions of Americans.

Should we line these tens of millions of Americans up and shoot them?

Should we put them in giant gas chambers?

I think we can all agree that the thought of killing millions of innocent Americans is repulsive. A book this repulsive has no place in our society.

And make no mistake about it - the bible really means what it says. It fully intends to be repulsive. In Isaiah 40 verse 8 the Bible says:

The grass withers, the flower fades; but the word of our God will stand for ever. [Isaiah 40 verse 8]

The Bible says the same thing in 1 Peter 1 verses 24 and 25. And in Psalm 19:7 the Bible says:

The law of the Lord is perfect.

Since the laws of the Bible are perfect, they should never change.

And then there is this. In Matthew 5 verse 20 Jesus says:

For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. - Matthew 5:20

According to Jesus, we must follow the laws of the Bible.

Do you believe that we should kill millions of innocent people because they work on the Sabbath? If not, do you want a book this repulsive to be quoted in public? Read to children? Used in our courts of law?

Example 2

The Bible wants us to kill most people in America. For example, the first commandment says, "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me." What are we supposed to do with everyone who doesn't believe in God? We are supposed to Kill them. Deuteronomy chapter 17 says that we are supposed to stone non-believers to death.

If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of his covenant, and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars of the sky… Take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death. – Deut 17:2-7

In 2 Chronicles 15:12-13:

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. - 2 Chron 15:12-13

Deuteronomy 13:13-19:

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases…you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy 13:7-12:

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods …do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. - Deut 13:7-12

What if you take the name of the lord in vain? Leviticus chapter 24 verse 16 says:

Anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. – Lev 24:16

The Bible is quite clear. We must kill everyone who does not believe in God. There are approximately 30 million people in America who do not believe in any God. There are tens of million more who believe in gods other than the God of the Bible. The Bible commands that we kill them all.

And keep in mind that the word of the Lord lasts forever, and the law of the lord is perfect.

Think of this as a Christian Jihad. The idea of killing tens of millions of people because they don’t believe in God is repulsive.

Example 3

If you curse your father and mother you are to be killed:

All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. - Leviticus 20:9

Example 4

If you commit adultery you are to be killed:

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife - with the wife of his neighbor - both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. - Leviticus 20:10

Example 5

If you happen to be homosexual you are to be killed.

If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death. - Leviticus 20:13

So let’s review: God commands us to kill:

* Everyone who works on the Sabbath
* veryone who does not believe in God
* Anyone who curses father or mother
* Everyone who commits adultery
* Everyone who happens to be Homosexual

According to the Bible, we need to kill tens of millions of innocent Americans. The idea of killing this many innocent people is repulsive. The idea that people would walk around carrying a book that demands the death of tens of millions of innocent people is repulsive.

Example 6

Here’s another example of the Bible’s idiocy. Rebellious teenagers should all be killed as well. Here's what the Bible says in Deuteronomy chapter 21:

If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father and mother, who does not heed them when they discipline him, then his father and his mother shall ... say to the elders of his town, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the town shall stone him to death. - Deut 21

Think about how many American teenagers need to die.

Example 7

In Matthew 18 verses 7 through 9, Jesus speaks:

If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell. - Matthew 18:7-9

This verse is repulsive on three levels:

1. It is repulsive because Jesus is such an idiot here. He is completely wrong.
2. It is repulsive because it demands that people maim themselves.
3. It is repulsive because the entire concept of “hell” is repulsive.

Jesus is an idiot. Cutting off your hand or gouging out an eye accomplishes nothing. If you are having a problem with unproductive behaviors, what you need to do is talk with a counselor or see a therapist. Self-amputation is absurd and repulsive. Jesus dispenses advice that is completely useless, and recklessly dangerous as well.

Example 8

The Bible’s absolute sexism is well known, and it is repulsive. Here are two examples:

Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. - 1 Corinthians 14

And:

Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. - 1 Tim 2

We can find dozens of verses that are just as sexist. The Bible’s sexism is both ridiculous and repulsive.

Example 9

The Bible fully supports slavery. In fact, the Bible has been used in many cases, including the American civil war, as an authoritative justification of slavery. Here are three examples.

Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life. - Leviticus 25:44

Also:

If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property. - Exodus Chapter 21:20

Also:

Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to be refractory, nor to pilfer, but to show entire and true fidelity. - Titus 2:9

You can see that, according to the Bible:

1. Buying and selling slaves is fine.
2. Beating slaves is fine.
3. Slaves are to show entire and true fidelity.

If you are an intelligent person, you know that he entire idea of slavery is repulsive.

Example 10

The Bible is riddled with repulsion. Take, for example, this verse:

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. - Isaiah 13

Or this:

Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open. - Hosea 13

Or this:

Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. - Numbers 31

You get the picture. The Bible is repulsive.

You have seen ten graphic examples of repulsion. You can find hundreds of verses like these throughout the old and new testaments. You find Racism, sexism and bigotry gallore. The deaths millions of innocents are chronicled in page after page of this appalling book. There is no question that this book is repulsive. It has no place in a modern, civilized nation.

We currently use the Bible throughout American society. We do that, in large part, because most Americans have never read the bible and have no idea how disgusting it is.

* We read from this book at weddings and funerals.
* We force people to put their hands on this book in court.
* We find copies of the Bible in nearly every hotel room in America.

The Bible demands that we kill everyone who works on the Sabbath. The Bible commands us to kill teenagers who drink too much. The Bible empowers us to enslave people of other nations. The Bible commands that we oppress women and kill people who happen to be homosexual.

A book this repulsive has no place in our society. It is time for the intelligent, thoughtful people of this nation to acknowledge this simple fact and act on it.

Would you like to learn more?

Comment: I am beginning to see a

Submitted by AntiApollyon on January 19, 2008 - 5:27am.

I am beginning to see a pattern in Mr. Anderson's posts, perhaps others realize this as well. I've looked into some of his "references," and all he is doing is copying and pasting large portions of other people's web sites and ideas, I doubt he has even studied the scriptures himself. Apparently he does not realize that proper Biblical study (or any study of ancient texts) needs to be done with reference to the original languages and care must be taken to understand the logic of the writings. The scriptures are full of If...then conditionals, time series events, and exceptions. Perhaps before spouting off his mouth and telling other people to "read their Bible" he should first understand that perhaps they have. Maybe he should try to understand it himself and study it rather than relying on some one else to do misguided work for him.

The kind of "debating" if you can call it that, which Mr. Anderson uses is unscientific, illogical, and childish at best - his arguments (actually, not really his) would be torn apart in any legitimate venue of discussion and debate, and would certainly fail miserably as any valid philosophical standing. Yes, there are rules to critical thinking just as there are "rules" for the scientific method as a safeguard to faulty conclusions. The web sites he references violate all the established guidelines of critical thinking and scientific methodology.

Mr. Anderson needs to stop hiding behind his ultimate comeback of "just making excuses" as his answer to explanations of the scriptures. Another tactic used by those who can not come up with a legitimate counter argument to a valid point is to toss out a diversion, or just ignore the point altogether - saying Christians are "just making excuses" is nothing but a scapegoat because he can not come up with his own valid counterpoint, but in fact, may just copy and paste another expository from a web site which will also say Christian apologetics are "just excuses." Circular logic? Most definitely. Flawed? Through and through.

To comment on the Bible being repulsive, outdated, primitive, and having no place in a civil society - if repulsiveness is the condition of what to allow, I find the ancient practice of two men (or women) together as a diluted continuance of pagan orgies in honor of false gods as most definitely repulsive and primitive, and should have no place in a civilized society. Un-natural, even against the Darwinist theory of evolution and "natural selection," homosexual activity is against propogation of the species - repulsive even in nature.

Well, enough said. I will be watching and reading. When Mr. Anderson gets out of line with his ranting and "copy/paste" tactics, when he is evading the argument and not answering questions or having a proper counter defense, I'll be sure to let you know. He seems to have the habit of blasting each post which references God with irrational and hostile flame-posts.

Comment: I shouldn't waste my time

Submitted by banderson on January 19, 2008 - 4:00pm.

I shouldn't waste my time arguing with Christian Republicans there are so many better things I could be doing :)

Ok...First off
You need to quit hiding behind the Bible and the false hopes it portrays. God has never proven himself to exist to society, period there is no arguing about this. There is NO PROOF!

Secondly...
I don't have time to re-write the whole website so yeah I copied and pasted. So what?

Thirdly...
I have a degree in Divinity and Political Sciences, I know what I am talking about. Do you have a degree in Divinity or Political Sciences? I didn't think so!

Fourthly...
Homosexuality is natural, your too blind to see otherwise. It exist thru out the animal kingdom...and guess what, we are a species of animal! OMG!!!!

Fifthly...
If we are animals, just more advanced then others, how come we are the only ones who build churches and read this book called the bible? Hmmm... odd!

Sixthly...
Circular logic? Look at the other post, let me refer back....
God commands the death of...
...Those who work on the sabbath.
...homosexuals.
...disobedient children.
...those who commit adultery.
God promotes sexism and slavery.
But someone said thats all in the old Testament and is to be taken figuratively...so why not homosexuality? It is all located in the Old Testament. You my friend are the one taking a Circular Logic, by picking a choosing what you want to follow and what you do not want to follow.

"Homosexuality is a sexual orientation, not an action. Sexual activity and sexual orientation are not the same. Just as there are straight virgins, there are gay virgins. Because sexual orientation is not the same as sexual experience, being gay cannot be considered to be a sin, just as being straight cannot be considered to be a sin."
http://www.createdgay.com/

In my personal opinion, Christianity is not a religion I would follow due to all the hostility. The bible was written by a primitive people who did not understand things as you "should" today. The bible is a book first and foremost, it is made of paper and ink just as any other book, and written by ancient humans, keep that in mind when you read it. Remember that if we believed everything ancient humans have said and told us, this world would be a very different place.

"The Christian Right needs homosexuality because they need some group to attack as part of their effort to restore the social, cultural, and political dominance of conservative Christianity in America. It’s not longer socially acceptable to attacks Jews, the previous scapegoat for Christian conservatives who hated everything modern. Gays, however, can be and are attacked in just about all the same ways that Jews used to be."
-Taken from:
Gay Fetish of the Christian Right

"The word ‘homosexuality’ is a modern term and did not exist during biblical times. Biblical writers had no concept of sexual orientation or sexual development as we understand those today."
~Rev. Dr. Mona West, The Bible and Homosexuality

Here's one for you die hard Christians from "Christian Teens"
http://christianteens.about.com/od/whatthebiblesaysabout/a/wbsaHomosexua...
"Whether or not you believe homosexuality is a sin based upon your interpretations of the scripture, there are some issues surrounding the treatment of homosexuals of which Christians need to be aware. While the Old Testament focused on rules and consequences, the New Testament offers a message of love. Rather than trying to be God and pass judgment on those individuals, a better option may be to offer prayers to those struggling with their homosexuality."

...and no I am not struggling with it. I am very happy with what I am. :)

Comment: Your flawed logic is

Submitted by AntiApollyon on January 19, 2008 - 11:19pm.

Your flawed logic is impeccable. Who said I was republican? I am not. I said we live in a republic, therefore in essence we are all “Republican.” You assume too much, perhaps that is your mistake. Well, maybe I’ll give you a little credit and revoke this strike, I don’t know what you mean by “Republican,” perhaps you mean “one living in a republic” as opposed to the defective, misleading, and hypocritical political platforms.

First -
No proof? Your blindness is astounding. Your self-imposed arrogance with the claim of “no arguing about this” seems to indicate you think you have some superior insight into the matter. There is proof, you just choose to ignore it and pass it off as “delusion.” Or would “imagination” or perhaps “hallucination” be your choice of words? Mass hysteria maybe? Or perhaps your favorite, “excuses.” You need to quit hiding behind those web sites which wouldn’t know a valid proof if it jumped out and slapped them in the face. How many demon possessions have you witnessed? How many healings? How many miracles? None? Well, surprise, surprise. I wonder why.

Secondly -
Copy and pasted? It just shows you believe all this drabble, inundating the forum with so much information as to make it impossible for anyone to make a timely response to each item. Nice tactic, typical of those who hide behind massive amounts of information to avoid having to deal with a single point to point discussion. But then, you are impatient, aren’t you.
Come to think of it, maybe I’ll put together my own web site, some day maybe you can copy and paste from mine. Or is that my false hope?

Thirdly -
Congratulations on your degree. Pat yourself on the back, but it means nothing. Attempting to make an argument from position of authority? Another flawed tactic. Do you have a degree in Mathematics? Physics? Theology? Philosophy? I didn’t think so. What’s your point? A Divinity degree implies you studied under organized religion. Which one, Catholic? Lutheran? Baptist? No wonder you are disillusioned. Credentials are nothing but paper on ink, any one with time and money can get them.

Fourthly -
Too blind to see homosexuality occurs in nature? Another one of your favorite tactics seems to be your tendency to make false assumptions, no wonder your conclusions are defective. Of course it occurs in nature as a confused reproductive drive. But of course, you would just cast aside any evidence of this, another one of your tactics.

Fifthly -
If we are just animals…. I give you credit here, this was your first logical question. If we were just animals, we would not build churches, etc. Let’s continue the logic: Therefore since we build churches, etc. then we are not just animals. Is that what you were implying? But then, that proves nothing since it can be argued these are just traits of advanced thinking. Perhaps you should formulate your questions better, OR were you trying to bait for a particular response? Another of your favorite tactics.

Sixly –
Picking and choosing? Your defective assumptions amuse and amaze me with their sweeping ignorance. Don’t even attempt to label me as a “cookie cutter Christian.” Yes God killed, commanded killing, endorsed killing… So what? He said He would, that’s not circular logic. He also gave opportunity to change. He gave the Amalekites over 400 years to accept Him before destroying; Noah preached for over 120 years before the flood. Grace was extended to Nineveh, and they escaped destruction… but then, you studied Divinity so you already know this stuff. You also know that Christ gives forbearance of God’s wrath, but the time is coming when God will pour out His wrath once again. So far we have had over 2000 years of grace and opportunity to change. But then, you decided to just ignore this and cast it off as a false hope. Too bad.

“Some one said this,” “Some one said that…” Are you relying on other people’s opinions as a determination of the truth of the scripture? Apparently so. Reverend this, or Rev. that, Prof. so and so, this poll, that poll…whatever. Absolutely irrelevant and proves nothing. God does not care about popular votes, majority rule, or opinions. There is only one way, His. Accept it, or reject it. Learn about it, or ignore it. Unfortunately, you have chosen the latter.

The word “homosexuality” is a modern term and didn’t exist in Biblical times? What an intelligent way to state the blatantly obvious! Neither did the words “Jesus Christ,” “Rapture,” “Tribulation,” “Holy Spirit,” in fact, the entire English language. What a revelation. No, homosexuality is just a euphemistic (i.e. less offensive) way of isolating a specific form of sexual immorality or abomination, as the King James version would put it. Paul did the same, there was no specific word to describe the act so in one example he created one, arsenokoitai, which comes from the words man and bed. Actually, homosexuality, bestiality, adultery, fornication, and so on are all lumped together into the English phrase “sexual immorality.” (Just a side note – because Jesus did not specifically mention the “homosexual” acts does not mean it is not a sin.)

Maybe your assumption that Christianity is a religion is your downfall. It isn’t. Catholicism is, Protestantism is, as is Islam. All have their traditions, their rituals, their practices and mantras which make man appear righteous through works. You entirely miss the point. True Christianity is a lifestyle, that is what the scriptures teach. You want to keep it in church? Too bad, that’s not where it belongs. Welcome to the real world. Of course you know about the Great Commission, you have a Divinity degree.

With all this “knowledge” you claim to have, it perplexes me to understand why you don’t realize that “Christians” are not going to shut up and mind their own business – this isn’t what the scriptures teach either. Others have provided adequate references, but of course you would say “just excuses” or “picking and choosing.” This just seems to imply you do not understand that certain scriptures apply under certain circumstances.

“Die hard Christians….” Are you trying to sway my faith with misguided quotes from magazines? Obviously, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and “die hard Christians” are not swayed by opinion. Quoting opinion with the expectation that these quotes are authoritative is another of your tactical flaws.

Basically, if you attack the Word of God, EXPECT heavy criticism. Your arguments may be picked apart, your methodologies may be heavily examined and criticized, your rationale examined. Besides, you do the same to us, and if you don’t expect a defense, aren’t you a hypocrite? So don’t go off on a rant because some one finds your arguments flawed. You can if you want, that is your right, but you look like a complete idiot. Especially when you make the presumptive mistake of intellectual superiority. Your posts drool with sarcasm which is a tool of the arrogantly foolish. I would say stop it, but you probably would not listen.

Your major flaws in your above post:

FALSE ASSUMPTION
-Assuming you have the truth
-Assuming things about me which are not true
-Assuming all Christians think the same
-Assuming all Christians pick and choose what to believe
-Assuming biblical Christianity is a religion

PRESUMPTION
- Obsessive use of controversial, unproven, and unsubstantiated statements to support a predetermined conclusion
- Arrogance and dismay if some one has the audacity to question your statements

Comment: How many demon possessions

Submitted by banderson on January 20, 2008 - 1:21am.

How many demon possessions have you witnessed? Only the ones in the movies...you know with actors, demons don't exist. How many healings? I healed myself from a cold yesterday...I took some Vitamin C, is that what you call "God"? How many miracles? Everytime I ruffle your feathers is a miracle to me, you people make me laugh. None? yes NONE!

Ok First
Where is the proof show it to me. The existence of the bible is not proof of God. So what is it? Because you say so...thats not proof buddy.

Secondly
You bible is full of vast amounts of information for you to hide behind.

Thirdly
You are the delusional one, remember the fairytales.

Fourthly
ahhh my friend if you only understood nature, it is an odd wonderful thing. Animals don't follow any specific moral codes, survival is the only thing they care about.

Fifthly
We are just animals, that is all I am implying, a species that has a big brain. Were you trying to say that we are something else? Maybe we are Aliens....perhaps we were dropped off here millions of years ago from planet Zukka.

Sixthly
Christ gives forbearance of God’s wrath, well then whats wrong with a little gay love?

Once again, YOU need to remember that YOUR god is not the same to everyone, and some people do not think he exists. Get used to it, and there is no problem with that...well there shouldn't be God did give us free will after all...or maybe you don't believe that. Whatever!

As far as trying to argue with you there is no point. Your not going to change your beliefs and I am not going to change mine. You can run around all you want and call me stupid and idiotic or whatever. Just remember I do the same for you. I think you believe in a fairytale. So what? Big Deal! MOVE ON! Don't ya got some sheep to be herding somewhere?

Oh by the way intellectual superiority doesn't co-mingle with faith. Religion has gotten in the way of many scientific advances. That is a FACT!

Comment: Ah, you are assuming things

Submitted by AntiApollyon on January 20, 2008 - 1:57am.

Ah, you are assuming things again. What makes you think I don't understand nature? My faith? Your misdirected opinion that religion blinds intelligence just because you can pull examples of powerful religious fanatics out of history? Well, I'm not religious, but that would get down to how you define religion.

Study your history, people with strong belief in scripture and God pioneered modern science - Granted, some of their theology was a little off, but that is not the point. To name a few:

Strauss, Bohr, Pasteur, Newton, Mendell, Gauss, Shrodinger, Fermi, Kepler, Brahe, Faraday, Plank, Euler... the list goes on.

My point is that religion does not blind, but it certainly can.

Comment: I never said it has gotten

Submitted by banderson on January 20, 2008 - 2:16am.

I never said it has gotten in the way in all scientific studies, but many. You say they Pioneered Science? Darwin certainly wasn't thinking along the lines of the bible and accepting what other people told him to be "fact". He is world renowned as a Pioneer of Modern Science with is evolution theory, which by the way is backed up with proof, unlike the bibles theory...
You also have to remember those Scientist you stated most were considered crazy and immoral at the time they were alive. Primitive humans believed in that book and took the word for truth and they thought the world was flat, that the sun revolved around the earth, because the bible said so, that is fact. Columbus was called crazy by religious fanatics for thinking the world was round. They told him we would fall off the edges of the earth.

Regardless, it doesn't matter if I think the bible is true or false. I don't believe it, my whole point in this was to point out in the past humans have lived by the word of this book and they were wrong, so maybe your wrong now on homosexuality. That is my point, Maybe you are wrong on homosexuality.

Comment: Darwin may be considered as

Submitted by AntiApollyon on January 20, 2008 - 3:49pm.

Darwin may be considered as a pioneer of modern science, but he originated very little. Darwin wrote: "I never forget that almost everything which I have don in science I owe to the study of his great works," referring to Sir Charles Lyell. Also, Darwin himself still believed in God until the day he died, he was simply dismayed at organized religion and the defective religious perceptions of nature. In his 1876 autobiography he recognizes this faith, denounces claims that he is an atheist, and labels himself as a Theist.

To believe in Evolution, one must also have faith - One can not prove Darwinian evolution through the scientific method since the theory can not even be tested properly. Molecular biology and genetics shows us that genetic information is lost from one generation to the next, a species will not evolve into a higher species but devolves with time into a more specialized individual with lesser adaptation and survival mechanisms than previous generations. Sounds like the law of sin and death at work to me, or in a more scientific term, the law of entropy is the driving force for change - mutation is destructive.

The fossil record shows extreme morphological changes from one fossil to the next, and there isn't even agreement among scientists, even secular scientists, as to the validity of this "record." So, pick and choose who you want to believe. Choose those who have faith in the fossil record if that fits your doctrine, or choose those who discredit it. In essence, evolution, like global warming, is pseudoscience filled with speculation, unproven hypothetical postulations being propagated as premises to the argument, subjective computer modeling and unproven speculative techniques being crammed down our throats by a loud, well-funded majority. The problem is, the "uneducated" population buys into it as legitimate science when even legitimate science counters evolutionary claims. Goes both ways, doesn't it.

Dating methodologies employs circular logic and is inherently flawed - Geological dating makes numerous unproven assumptions about erosion rates, geological rates of change growth/decomposition, and natural formations; largely based on Lyell's "Principles of Geology" and unprovable assumptions of uniformitarianism on which it is based. And guess what? Geological dating is used to verify radiometric dating, which is used to verify geological dating. Imagine that - even science uses the circular logic you rightly accuse many Christians of using.

The law of exponential decay can be used to speculate about the age of certain materials, as can other factors such as obsidian hydration layers, but these all rely on uniformity theory. The scientists which hold these dating methods as valid will support uniformitarianism, but if one tries to bring up alternative and equally unprovable and unproven claims such as the "mature earth" creation theory, they cry foul, as do you.

If using Lyell's methodologies scientists date the Mt. St. Helens geological formations at millions or years old instead of decades, scientists backing the radiometric dating methodologies of fossils are quick in attempts to discredit the reports is "unique incidences"

For those curious, a method of dating called KAr-40 measures the potassium-argon isotope ratios to date volcanic material under the assumption the original quantites are "fixed" when the lava solidifies. In a blind study, lava dome material of different rocks from Mt. St. Helens was dated at 0.35 - 2.8 million years old. Using similar dating methodologies and different isotope sets, the rocks at the bottom of the Grand Canyon "date" at 1.07 billion years using SrRu dating. However, the same rock from a major lava flow in the Grand Canyon a few thousand years ago date at 1.34 billion years. Strange, when the age of a rock is known, radiometric dating does not work, but when the age of a rock is unknown, scientists assume it does work. But then, other scientists are quick in there attempt to discredit these claims, and even offer up there own hypothetical cases to explain the reason the rocks dated as they did, which ironically only supports the case that radiometric dating is not reliable. Granted, neither case can be proven without a shadow of doubt but there is plenty of room for speculation. To note: The KAr-40 methodology is no longer used as a valid dating method for older materials, but the so-dated fossils and materials have not been re-examined, or have been examined with other methods such as the SrRu method, which can also be questioned. Just like "religion", one can also have faith in science. That faith can be well substantiated, or it can be speculative.

Also, just about everyone who formulates a radical theory of sweeping change is considered by contemporaries as a "lunatic" or "fanatical," that statement proves nothing and only infers and strengthens your predisposed and blinding prejudice against anything and everyone "religious" in you worldview.

Some references:
Dalrymple, G.B., 1969. 40Ar/36Ar analysis of historic lava flows. Earth and Planetary Science Letters, 6:47-55.
Austin, S.A., 1996. Excess Argon Within Mineral Concentrates from the New Dacite Lava Dome at Mount St. Helens Volcano. CEN Tech.J., 10(3):335-343.
href="http://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/mt_st_helens_dacite_kh.htm>
www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/mt_st_helens_dacite_kh.htm

Comment: You still failed to Prove

Submitted by banderson on January 20, 2008 - 5:18pm.

You still failed to Prove God's existence. And I also think you have fail to understand my point I was making...maybe you should re read the last part of my previous post.

As I said before about proof no matter what I say you will argue against it:
ARGUMENT FROM LACK OF EVIDENCE (I)
(1) I believe that if God exists, there will be no evidence for his existence.
(2) There is no evidence for the existence of God.
(3) Therefore, God exists.
ARGUMENT FROM LACK OF EVIDENCE (II)
(1) God, if you exist, please give me absolutely no sign.
(2)
(3) Therefore, God exists.
ARGUMENT FROM WE ALL GOT FAITH
(1) We all believe in something.
(2) Therefore we all have faith.
(3) My faith in God is no different from your faith that the sun will rise tomorrow morning.
(4) Therefore, God exists.
ARGUMENT FROM SCIENTISTS
(1) Some famous scientists believed in God.
(2) Therefore, God exists.

You can find a couple hundred of these here:
http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm

Comment: Notice how Mr. Anderson uses

Submitted by AntiApollyon on January 21, 2008 - 10:37am.

Notice how Mr. Anderson uses his own twisted logic to imply what other people think. Actually, once again, he has copied and pasted from other sites without doing any proofreading to see if what he is saying passes any form of proper argument.

Notice the arrogance and pride in his sweeping statements, the grandiose superiority he seems to reflect in the statements he so vehemently endorse.

Notice how ignorant he is of the fact that not everyone follows this logic.

Notice how absolutely ridiculous it is to say there is no argument in his statements, when they are heavily burdened by opinion and not fact, particularly by his own foregone conclusion that there is no evidenI believe that if God exists, there will be no evidence for his existence.

Notice how he likes to tell everyone, first and foremost, that our belief is without evidence, only because he thinks it is without evidence, only because he and his advocates reject anything others find as evidence because his opinions he has already pre-ordained as truth.

Mr. Anderson, I pity you. Honestly. You are so blinded by your own arrogance. And yo dare to accuse Christians of the same things? How hypocritical. How egocentrical.

Comment: godlessgeeks, as does Mr.

Submitted by AntiApollyon on January 21, 2008 - 10:13am.

godlessgeeks, as does Mr. Anderson, makes the false assumption that some implies all. As I have said before, these sights and this line of reasoning is defective through and through and without merit.

Furthermore, the common ploy is to come to the conclusion that God does not exist because men choose to do things against God, and even make the error of assuming God does not exist because there are injustices in the world, based on their interpretation or expectation of justice, completely ignoring anything scripture defines:

Fact 1: Scripture defines rules regulating slavery (not race-based slavery, but conditional slavery)
Fact 2: My belief is that all forms of slavery are bad
Conclusion: Scripture contradicts my beliefs, therefore God does not exist.

Or how about the logic behind the most prominent and best argument these atheist fools can think of:

Fact 1:Scripture states that God will not be tested or mocked.
Fact 2:Scripture states that faith is belief in God and what He says is true
Fact 3:Scripture states God is omniscient
Hypothesis:God does not exist because Prayer is not answered
Experiment: Have people pray in order to test my hypothesis that God does not exist
Result: None of those prayers are answered, my experiment proves my hypothesis
Conclusion: God does not exist
Problem: The experiment is set up in violation of Fact 1 and will therefore logically fail. The experimenter violates Fact 2, and because of Fact 3, the object of the experiment (God) knows that Fact 2 is violated so again, the experiment will logically fail.

There is no "experiment" that will prove or test God, because all such experiments violate Fact 1. These atheists are extremely hypocritical. Why? Here is a method of logic they employ:

Fact 1: There is some evidence for Darwinian evolution
Fact 2: Darwinian (or macro-scale) evolution can not be proved by experimentation
Fact 3: I accept the evidence for Darwinian evolution
Conclusion: Darwinian evolution is true

But, they reject this:

Fact 1: There is some evidence of God
Fact 2: God can not be proved by experimentation
Fact 3: I accept the evidence for God
Conclusion: God is true.

Because of Fact 3, what use would Fact 1 be to you? You have already given conditions of the only evidence you will accept:
- something you can weigh, measure, test, experiment with, etc. Basically, you are trying to define God in the perspective of science, when science has no capacity and no tools to measure God. That is why athiests are as such and demonstrates the folly of their convictions: they assume that science is the only answer. Science deals only with nature and the observable and measurable, it has no way to deal with the supernatural and a God that demands faith, not observation.

Comment: Thanks for proving what I

Submitted by banderson on January 21, 2008 - 10:33am.

Thanks for proving what I said:
ARGUMENT FROM LACK OF EVIDENCE (I)
(1) I believe that if God exists, there will be no evidence for his existence.
(2) There is no evidence for the existence of God.
(3) Therefore, God exists.
ARGUMENT FROM LACK OF EVIDENCE (II)
(1) God, if you exist, please give me absolutely no sign.
(2)
(3) Therefore, God exists.

That is not evidence.

And what evidence of God are you speaking of? The Bible is not evidence.

Your Darwinian evolution of course cannot be proved by experimentation, it takes thousand or sometimes millions of years for creatures to evolve.

Comment: You make a false assumption:

Submitted by AntiApollyon on January 21, 2008 - 11:18am.

You make a false assumption: I never stated I accept Darwinian evolution. But then again, false assumptions are mistakes you commonly make.
For the record, if I use an example to make a point, by what means do you say that example will reflect my convictions? My convictions lie in the underlying principles I make by using the examples I do, not in the examples themselves.

When making a point, it is always best to go from a perspective of the opposing party to eliminate or reduce prejudicial convictions. Don't you know this, or is it new to you?

Anyway, now you know. Besides, it is apparent you have not read what I wrote in other posts (even though you replied to them), because otherwise you will already know I have said the evidence is not in the Bible.

For other Christians, let this be an example - You can not use the scripture to prove the scripture if your opponent absolutely rejects scripture and has absolutely no desire to accept God. Remember Pharoh? Remember Korah? The Old Testament is full of those who witnessed God's works directly and still rejected Him. Even Christ was rejected. No matter what evidence you give them, if they are already rebellious, reject God, hate God, or have absolutely no desire to seek God; any evidence you give them will be futile, they will formulate some excuse to reason it away.

[I edited and added this below:]
The point I am making is that many of those same atheists which accept Darwinian evolution, or even macro-evolution, given the premises I provided reject the same logic Christians use in favor of God. An you even admitted that macro-evolution can not be tested. Non-testability fails the test of scientific validity, that is why evolution is a pseudo-science and not a true science - it can not be tested.

Comment: Coincidences, thats all that

Submitted by banderson on January 21, 2008 - 4:03pm.

Coincidences, thats all that is.

Let's take a look at 10 simple questions:

1: Why won't God heal amputees?
On the one hand, you believe that God answers prayers and performs miracles. On the other hand, you know that God completely ignores amputees when they pray for miracles. How do you deal with this discrepancy? As an intelligent person, you have to deal with it, because it makes no sense. In order to handle it, notice that you have to create some kind of rationalization. You have to invent an excuse on God's behalf to explain this strange fact of life. You might say, "well, God must have some kind of special plan for amputees." So you invent your excuse, whatever it is, and then you stop thinking about it because it is uncomfortable.

2: Why are there so many starving people in our world?
Look out at our world and notice that millions of children are dying of starvation. It really is horrific. Why would God be worried about you getting a raise, while at the same time ignoring the prayers of these desperate, innocent little children? It really doesn't make any sense, does it? Why would a loving god do this?

To explain it, you have to come up with some sort of very strange excuse for God. Like, "God wants these children to suffer and die for some divine, mysterious reason." Then you push it out of your mind because it absolutely does not fit with your view of a loving, caring God.

3:Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible?

Look up these verses:

- Exodus 35:2 – God demands that we kill everyone who works on the Sabbath day.

- Deuteronomy 21:18-21 – God demands that we kill disobedient teenagers.

- Leviticus 20:13 – God demands the death of homosexuals.

- Deuteronomy 22:13-21 – God demands that we kill girls who are not virgins when they marry.

And so on… There are lots of verses like these.

It doesn't make any sense, does it? Why would a loving God want us to murder our fellow human beings over such trivial matters? Just because you work on the wrong day of the week, you must die? That makes no sense, does it? In fact, if you think about it, you realize that it is insane. So you create some kind of rationalization to explain these verses.

4: Why does the Bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?

You may have a college degree, so you know what I'm talking about. You should know how science works. You happily use the products of science every day: your car, your cell phone, your microwave oven, your TV, your computer. These are all products of the scientific process. You should know that science is incredibly important to our economy and to our lives.

But there is a problem. As an educated person you know that the Bible contains all sorts of information that is total nonsense from a scientific perspective.

- God did not create the world in 6 days 6,000 years ago like the Bible says.

- There was never a worldwide flood that covered Mt. Everest like the Bible says.

- Jonah did not live inside a fish's stomach for three days like the Bible says.

- God did not create Adam from a handful of dust like the Bible says.

These stories are all nonsense. Why would an all-knowing God write nonsense? It makes no sense, does it? So you create some type of very strange excuse to try to explain why the Bible contains total nonsense.

5: Why is God such a huge proponent of slavery in the Bible?

Look up these Bible verses:

- Exodus 21:20-21 – God says that it is OK to own slaves, and it is also OK to beat them.

- Colossians 3:22-24 – Slaves need to obey their masters.

- Ephesians 6:5 – Slaves need to obey their masters just as they would obey Christ.

- 1 Peter 2:18 – Slaves need to obey their masters, even if their masters are harsh.

And so on…

And why do all intelligent people abhor slavery and make it completely illegal? You have to come up with some kind of weird rationalization to explain it.

6: Why do bad things happen to good people?

That makes no sense. You have created an exotic excuse on God's behalf to rationalize it.

7: Why didn't any of Jesus' miracles in the Bible leave behind any evidence?

It's very strange, isn't it? You have created an excuse to rationalize it.

8: How do we explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you?

Jesus is all-powerful and timeless, but if you pray for Jesus to appear, nothing happens. You have to create a weird rationalization to deal with this discrepancy.

9 – Why would Jesus want you to eat his body and drink his blood?

It sounds totally grotesque, doesn't it? Why would al all-powerful God want you to do something that, in any other context, sounds like a disgusting, cannibalistic, satanic ritual?

And finally,
10: Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians?

Christians get married in front of God and their Christian friends, all of whom are praying to God for the marriage to succeed. And then they say, "What God has put together, let no man put asunder." God is all-powerful, so if God has put two people together that should seal the deal, right? Yet Christians get divorced at the same rate as everyone else. To explain this, you have to create some convoluted rationalization.

We have looked at 10 fascinating questions. In order to believe in God, you have had to create all sorts of strange rationalizations and excuses. If you think about it honestly, using the critical thinking skills that you learned in school, you have to admit that your answers to these questions make no sense at all.

Now, let me show you something remarkable. What if you instead assume that God is imaginary? A funny thing happens: the answers to every one of these questions make complete sense. Just look at all ten questions as an intelligent person:

1) Why won't God heal amputees? Because God is imaginary, and he doesn't answer any prayers. Every "answered prayer" is actually a coincidence. All scientific evidence supports this conclusion.

2) Why are there so many starving people in our world? Because God is imaginary, and he is therefore unable to answer their prayers.

3) Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible? Because God is imaginary, and the Bible was written by ridiculous, ruthless men rather than any sort of loving being.

4) Why does the Bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense? Ditto. Primitive men wrote the bible, not an all-knowing being.

5) Why is God such a huge proponent of slavery? Ditto.

6) Why do bad things happen to good people? Because God is imaginary and bad things happen at the same statistical rates to everyone.

7) Why didn't any of Jesus' miracles in the Bible leave behind any evidence? Because God is imaginary, and Jesus' miracles are myths.

8) How do we explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you? Because God is imaginary.

9) Why would Jesus want you to eat his body and drink his blood? Because God is imaginary, and this bizarre ritual came from a pagan religion.

10) Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians? Because God is imaginary.

Do you see what has happened here? When we assume that God exists, the answers to these ten questions make absolutely no sense. But if we assume that God is imaginary, our world makes complete sense.

Now I know that it doesn't matter what I say, I am not going to change your beliefs, and you will not be able to sway mine. So lets quit arguing this subject, religion is sub-standard to our government, that means the rule and laws of our country go above and beyond the church, you as a religous person do not have to accept "Gay Rights" or "Gay Marriage", but I want the option to be there for those who live that lifestyle. You and ONLY YOU can choose if you want to follow that path or not, but the option should be there for you, me and the next generation.

Comment: 1: Why won't God heal

Submitted by arnijodi on January 22, 2008 - 5:01am.

1: Why won't God heal amputees? God's ways are not our ways. He chooses to heal some people, but most often he chooses not to heal but allows His grace to work in those that suffer. Eventually, in eternity, God will give all believers new perfect bodies.

2: Why are there so many starving people in our world? Our world has brought suffering upon itself by its own sinful actions. We live in a fallen world that will not be perfect until Christ returns.

3:Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible? You are looking at the Old Testament. In the New Testament, Christ came to save us from our sins by coming to earth to die for our sins so that we may have eternal life.

4: Why does the Bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?
The Bible is full of factual information that supports scientific discovery.

5: Why is God such a huge proponent of slavery in the Bible? Slavery has always plagued our society. The Bible does not condone slavery, but rather gives advice on
how to overcome it.

6: Why do bad things happen to good people? We live in a fallen world. Although Christ was perfect, he was unjustly ridiculed and he suffered much to bring salvation to the world.

7: Why didn't any of Jesus' miracles in the Bible leave behind any evidence? Are you kidding me?! Look around you! Look at His creation of the world and the amazing
things in His creation. The human body is the most intricate living thing ever created by Christ.

8: How do we explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you?
I talk to him every day. He appeared to the people of Israel and they crucified him. The Bible says that, "the just shall live
by faith".

9: Why would Jesus want you to eat his body and drink his blood? This is a strong figure of speech that shows us how much we should participate in the believing of His death and resurrection.

10: Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians?
Maybe some of them aren't true Christians after all. Even if they are true Christians,
it just shows that Christians have problems too. That's why the Bible says, "No one is perfect, no not one". We all need the grace and forgiveness of Christ. We all need His everlasting mercy.

Comment: The problem is, regardless

Submitted by banderson on January 6, 2008 - 3:48pm.

The problem is, regardless of what I point out you are going to come up with some excuse for it, and vice versa. Figuratively or Literally, the bible is riddled with slavery, with death, with sexism, and thats just the tip of the iceburg! Perhaps you need to read it from cover to cover instead of just reading a passage here and there in church!

This All Knowing, All Powerful, Creature you call God, he can't even come up with his own money, he's gotta beg for it in church every weekend.

**Quit making excuses, he commands you to kill!**

Exodus 31:15
For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 13:13-19:
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases…you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy 13:7-12:

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods …do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.

Leviticus 20:9
All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.

Deuteronomy chapter 21:

If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father and mother, who does not heed them when they discipline him, then his father and his mother shall ... say to the elders of his town, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the town shall stone him to death.

Matthew 18:7-9
If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

**He commands you to be sexist!**

1 Corinthians 14
Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

1 Tim 2
Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.

**He promotes Slavery! How repulsive!**

Leviticus 25:44
Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life.

Exodus Chapter 21:20
If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

Titus 2:9
Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to be refractory, nor to pilfer, but to show entire and true fidelity.

***There are no passages saying take this book figuratively, so quit making excuses... it's funny because when the bible doesn't have an answer you guys make up some ridiculous excuse!**

Comment: For one second if you

Submitted by banderson on January 6, 2008 - 3:31pm.

For one second if you believe the non-sense in that stupid essay your ridiculously stupid.

Read the second Paragraph on that page, all those Ills of society are NOT limited to the homosexual community.

I am curious to know who wrote that article, my guess is a biased group trying to make homosexuals look bad.

Furthermore I am curious to know if homosexuals get the same rights as straight people, do you think everyones gonna turn gay? I don't think so!

Here's an experiment, If you consider your self a straight man/woman look at a nude picture of someone of the same sex does it turn you on? Do you get aroused? Probably not...why? Because your not gay! So get over it, get off your high horse, and come to reality. Your delusion is severely effecting your life and the lives of others!

Comment: I think the above article is

Submitted by mike on January 6, 2008 - 4:00pm.

I think the above article is an excellent example that there are "bad eggs" or people with their own agenda in every group... whether it be Christian, American, Political, Gay/ Lesbian, etc.

I think sometimes it is very easy to pin point bad examples of Christians, simply because we are a majority religion, and because our history is so open. However, just because some Christians held certain ideas or acted in certain behaviors, that does not reflect the group as a whole.

We always need to keep this in mind... one person does not sum up the thoughts and behaviors of the entire group.

In regards to that article, it appears to be legit, but again I do not see that as the agenda for all Gay individuals, and we must also take in account the hate crimes against those who came out openly at the time it was written.

For the record I do not approve of homosexuality, however it is the action, not the person that I disapprove of. This is also important to keep in mind... in any situation.

God Bless,
Mike

Comment: Now see this guy I give

Submitted by banderson on January 6, 2008 - 7:32pm.

Now see this guy I give credit to, he seems to be sane. He didn't quote from the bible, if only people could learn.

"We always need to keep this in mind... one person does not sum up the thoughts and behaviors of the entire group."

Excellent Point Mike!

**Note to the rest of you.**
Sometime I can agree with you!